Let’s Retire This Meme
Meme in question: “No one is ‘pro-abortion.’”
Bullshit.
There are plenty of people out there who are enthusiastically pro-abortion. Here, for instance, is the blogger ‘po boy:
“I am pro-abortion. Not pro-choice. Pro-abortion. I think this is an important distinction because I hear some pro-choicers say they support the right of a woman to choose, but they would never want to have or would want their lover/girlfriend/wife to have an abortion.
“I don’t get that. I can’t say I support the right for a woman to get an abortion and then say abortion is bad. Abortion is good. When a woman evaluates where she is in the universe and decides that she should have an abortion, she is doing the right thing. And she is doing a good thing.”
Here’s the commenter Jara Sang, on the Democratic Underground blog:
“I am pro abortion. Bush should have been aborted. The man is a cancer on this planet.”
This is a YouTube contribution from someone called “Dykeborn.” The title of the video? “I Am PRO-ABORTION:”
Writer Diana Blaine, Ph.D., writes, “I am not pro-choice; I am pro-abortion:”
“I’ve got to wonder what role models young women have that let them know they aren’t moral cripples if they make the wonderful life affirming decision to abort an unwanted pregnancy.”
Jenn, who blogs under the name XXBlaze, writes:
“So here it is, for everyone who cares to know: I’m Pro-Abortion. I don’t dress my opinions up with fancy terms like “pro-choice” to distance my stance from the fact that I am supporting the systematic termination of a pregnancy that will result in the “death” of a fetus, embryo, fertilized egg, or a sack of cells that might be a human depending on your political agenda.”
Zoe, at Shameless, the magazine for “girls who get it,” writes:
“I am not just pro-choice. I am pro-abortion.”
Amanda Hess, writing in the Washington City Paper, says:
“Abortion is not wrong. And a woman’s personal, emotional reaction to her abortion isn’t wrong either.”
Lagusta is the invented name of the blogger at lagusta.com. She describes herself as a vegan chef in New Palz, NY, and she is unashamedly pro-abortion:
“Whereas I really hate it when conservatives say that pro-choice people are pro-abortion, I have to admit that I am actually pro-abortion. Please, have an abortion. Naturally, not getting knocked up in the first place is the best option, but if you do, please get an abortion. Because I just can’t bear the thought of any more women having any more damn kids … I am thankful for abortions, because the last thing we need in this hideous world is more babies … I would not admit it in mixed company (luckily, I have organized my life so that I am never in “mixed company,”) … “
The last word goes to the anonymous blogger at the site, Violent Acres. She writes:
“I am pro abortion simply because sometimes death is more merciful than life. What good is bringing an unwanted child into the world so it can lead a miserable, desolate, pointless life?
“Give me death. Sweet, sweet merciful baby death and lots of them.
“Every time a baby dies in the womb, I sleep a little easier that night.”
So, I could keep going, but I’m getting a bit sick to my stomach. And besides, you get the idea. There are plenty of people who are pro-abortion, and many others who are but just won’t admit it in what Lagusta calls “mixed company.” And, you’ll notice, most of those cited above, as well as those I didn’t include, are women. So, can we please just drop the “no one is pro-abortion” meme? It was an insult to our intelligence from the start.
MG
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December 10th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
twisted and evil. they are the final fruit of left wing hatred for its own culture taken to its logical conclusion. hatred of all humans as a “plague on the world” and a cross between empty narcism and self hatered.
really pathetic creatures. and interestingly many dont breed, so thewy are the end of the line hopefully thier ugly twisted ideas die with them.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
They need prayers. They need God.
December 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Hello! Thanks for mentioning my blog! A couple of things: believe it or not, Lagusta is my real name, not an “invented” one, and I don’t merely “describe myself as a vegan chef,” I am a vegan chef, at least in the sense that one “is” what one makes their money from doing, which is a concept I have some problems with, but you get what I mean.
And oh my, oh my, my comments on abortion seem so hardline, don’t they? I wrote that when I was about 20, and though I still believe in the sentiment, these days I would phrase it a little better. I am still pro-abortion because I am pro-woman. But here’s something else: abortions do make me sad, believe it or not. Not because they “kill a baby” (which they don’t, and you seem like a smart person so I’m sure you don’t believe that), but because having to have a medical procedure for something that could have been prevented is always sad.
Unfortunately our society is structured in such a way that many women do not have adequate resources (financial, societal, emotional, etc.) necessary to bring children into this world, and for these woman I am thankful abortion is an option, and in that sense I am pro-abortion. I wish people would not need to use the option, for sure.
Also, you replaced a lot of good stuff with ellipses in my quote!
And finally: I think we have a lot of common ground, and your blog makes some good points. I am also a fan of James Kunstler, and of the idea that our culture has gone horribly off track. I of course don’t believe in the ridiculous notion of a god, but what can ya do.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Lagusta,
And if abortion did amount to the killing of a baby, would you oppose it? Incidentally, roughly half of the human beings killed by abortion are female, so in what possible sense can you be considered pro-woman? And, I’m interested in whether your choice of a vegan lifestyle is strictly a practical choice or a principled one. That is, are you a vegan because you abhor cruelty to animals? If so, isn’t it a bit strange that you apparently don’t have any compassion for nascent human beings in the womb, even those who can feel pain?
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Lagusta,
Incidentally, your blog says that “Lagusta” is a “made up hippie name.” That’s why I thought it was a pseudonym.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Last Lagusta comment,
If it is ridiculous to believe in a god, it is beyond ridiculous to believe in something called a “vegan chef.” Vegan cook, maybe, but ‘chef?’ Uh, I don’t think so.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Hello!
OK, let’s see:
“And if abortion did amount to the killing of a baby, would you oppose it?”
Of course, just as I am opposed to capital punishment. Are you? It’s amazing the number of anti-choice people who are in favor of the death penalty! Anyway, happily, I believe in science, and science teaches us that there is a giant distinction between fetuses and babies. I do so wish you folks would understand that and be able to move on to more important issues. Doesn’t your great fairy tale book tell you to spend your time helping the poor or something? I don’t remember your Christ dude (and yes, I’ve read your whole book–it’s great literature, for sure! Super violent and scary though.) ever saying anything about abortion, strangely.
Here’s the deal. Pro-choice people don’t believe in wantonly killing babies, no matter how much you want to believe that. It’s simply untrue. The real truth is that your insane obedience to a fairy tale has warped your minds and you can’t see things they way they are anymore. It’s time to snap out of it and move on.
And finally:
“If it is ridiculous to believe in a god, it is beyond ridiculous to believe in something called a “vegan chef.” Vegan cook, maybe, but ‘chef?’ Uh, I don’t think so.”
Uh, I really and truly do not understand this statement and would like clarification. Are you saying that vegan food is not food as your godly mind understands food to be and thus cannot be manipulated and cooked in a cheffy way? I assure you that I went to cooking school and have a closet full of chef’s jackets and a drawer full of super sharp knives and a roster of clients and eaters of my chocolates that say that I am indeed a “chef,” at least in the meaning of the word as you understand it: someone who knows a lot about food and how to prepare it sublimely.
I’m not a chef in the old-school way of screaming at underlings and extracting flavor from the bones of tortured animals, but that’s because, well, I believe in evolution.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
[…] Oh dear, I am having fun with this. […]
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Lagusta! What a joker. You even write like a teenaged girl. “Dude.” “Peeps.” Are you kidding? You’re a walking, talking parody.
Sneering at religion - especially in that sophomoric tone - doesn’t make you a rationalist, and invoking science doesn’t mean you’ve got the science right. In fact, on abortion the science is against you because there is no fundamental scientific distinction between a fetus and a baby. The two exist on the same continuum of development, and at all stages along that continuum the fetus-baby is a.) indisputably human, and b.) in possession of a DNA signature completely distinct from its mother. The fetus-baby reacts to external stimuli, feels pain, and according to pre-natal brainwave studies even exhibits a high degree of cognition. The only reason you and others refuse to recognize the humanity - and therefore the worth - of the unborn child is because you choose not to do so. You don’t spend any time or effort making the “scientific” case that the unborn child isn’t a human being because you can’t. All you offer instead is a pose and a sneer.
Since you give no evidence of being well-read, you might not know that plenty of pro-choice feminists long ago conceded the point, and the science. Notable among them is Naomi Wolf, who in her famous New Republic article from a few years ago wrote: “While pro-lifers have not been beyond dishonesty, distortion and the doctoring of images (preferring, for example, to highlight the results of very late, very rare abortions), many of those photographs are in fact photographs of actual D & Cs; those footprints are in fact the footprints of a 10-week-old fetus, the pro-life slogan, ‘Abortion stops a beating heart,’ is incontrovertibly true. While images of violent fetal death work magnificently for pro-lifers as political polemic, the pictures are not polemical in themselves: they are biological facts. We know this.”
And later in the piece: “Wanted fetuses are charming, complex REM-dreaming little beings whose profile on the sonogram looks just like Daddy, but unwanted ones are mere “uterine material”? How can we charge that it is vile and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if the images are real? To insist that the truth is in poor taste is the very height of hypocrisy. Besides, if these images are often the facts of the matter, and if we then claim that it is offensive for pro-choice women to be confronted by them, then we are making the judgment that women are too inherently weak to face a truth about which they have to make a grave decision. This view of women is unworthy of feminism. Free women must be strong women, too: and strong women, presumably do not seek to cloak their most important decisions in euphemism.”
The point of Wolf’s article was that an honest pro-choice position must concede the humanity of the fetus, and still make the case for the necessity of available abortion. I disagree, obviously, since I don’t believe the intentional killing of an innocent human being can ever be justified, but I respect Wolf’s point of view because she doesn’t hide behind something she knows isn’t true: that there is a difference in kind between the fetus and a baby. That’s your fairy tale, your anti-scientific fairy tale.
And so, I’ll ask you again, if abortion amounted to the killing of a baby, would you be in favor of it? Wolf says she would. You spin your sneering yarn about some “giant distinction” between babies and fetuses. Wolf is honest and honestly wrong. You’re not only wrong, but dishonestly so.
As for some of your other silly prejudices about religious people. No, I don’t favor the death penalty. Yes, I’m actively involved on a daily and weekly basis in helping the poor. No, I don’t believe that pro-choice people seek to wantonly kill babies. Those are your words, not mine, and they spring from an ignorance every bit as deep as that of any Christian fundamentalist.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:50 am
I’m down with whatever Naomi Wolf tells me to believe!
December 24th, 2008 at 1:51 am
And: I’m glad you’re a good Christian, inasmuch as there can be such a thing.
December 24th, 2008 at 3:18 am
And: why not be childish? Your points are so simplistic, it’s hard not to be. And: it’s fun.
December 24th, 2008 at 10:54 am
I’m down with whatever Naomi Wolf tells me to believe!
Little thinking.
I’m glad you’re a good Christian, inasmuch as there can be such a thing.
Less thinking.
… why not be childish? Your points are so simplistic, it’s hard not to be.
No thinking. If my points are so simplistic, why not bother refuting even one of them. Instead, you substitute the ad hominem insult for any attempt at critical thinking, especially thinking that may challenge your own assumptions and prejudices. That is what’s known as “vincible ignorance.” But, maybe you’re afraid you can’t keep up. Maybe you’re terrified that a believer in fairy tales may actually show you up?
You can’t deny what you know to be true: that the child in the womb is just that, a child. Instead of hiding behind really embarrassing, appropriated language - Flatbush Brooklyn meets Ulster County - try being honest for a change. Tell us you favor killing the unborn child anyway if that’s what a woman chooses to do. It’s okay. Just say it. We already know.
December 25th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Oh, I know. It’s no fun fighting with me when I won’t play along. It’s just so tiring, so boring. You try to rile me by taunting me, but I’ve really just lost energy for this boring old argument. We’re just going to say the same things to each other again and again. Even if (late term) abortions do “stop a beating heart,” they still don’t kill a baby, because babies refers to birthed people. Blah blah blah. I will never concede your point, I will never agree that abortion kills babies.
I will just state my fervent wish again and again that god-peopled people like you would care about babies once they are born, whereupon you and your ilk seem to not care one bit what happens to them. And if I’m being unfair by comparing you to the bad evangelicals it’s because right wing evangelicals have done so much damage to the reputation of all Christians (without, as far as I can see, many good Christians doing much about it) that, well, are you surprised that godless Jews like me think you’re all the same?
Also, you clearly know nothing about Ulster County, what’s up with your reference to it? And, you never apologized for saying I couldn’t be a vegan chef.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Vincible ignorance. The triumph of ideology over common sense and simple, universal morality. Contratulations and goodbye, Lagusta.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Right, a sentence with that many big words could easily destabilize time itself…